CindereLLa

[Phoenix_Tears]

( i was inspired oddly enough from something my little sister was singing. if it sounds familiar, then tell me what it was because i liked it very much)


Once upon a time, when true love was real
There was true poetry, what people felt was real
The stars shined brighter, the moon once laughed
The sun took pride in drenching the world in its rays bath
When knights rescued ladies and took all the fame
When some said women were just playing a game
I don't need your heroics, Because this is not now
I don't want to be cinderella, i want to save myself

Where once there was magik, it does not remain
Where once there was beauty, it did not retain
Where once there was heaven, now darkness looms
Where once there was joy, there is not but gloom
When once there were forests by the hundred, now there are few
When once there were truely felt plays, now it's just enter on cue
I don't want your heroics, because it is not needed by me
I don't want to be cinderella, i want save myself-

Kind of different but oh well.
-Phoen-X-

[b]

Intriguing poem, Phoenix' tears!

The feeling that you utter in your poem sounds very familiar to me. It - for example - instantly reminds me to the Romanics of the 19th century, who saw their beloved world disappear under their own eyes, while it reappeared as a smoky semi-industialised society. Disappointed as they were by the mechanic, hyper-rational and 'lifeless' atmosphere of their age, they often tried to return to a more mystical, pure and natural time. Inspired by the old myths and the categoral remembrance of the middle ages, they embraced unharmed nature, desolate ruins, and harsh lovestories to feel more alive and humain.

In our hermetric time and overwhelmingly materialised society, it is hard to find really pure feelings that come right from the source, uharmed by human clichés and commercialisation. But most people don't care about that, since their desires are answered sufficiently to maintain the illusion that they are actually 'happy': they choose the way of the least resistance, and I don't blame them for doing so.

("Ineluctable modality of the visable: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.", to quote J. Joyce - Ulysses, chapture 3.)

People with a poetic soul and a high level of Weltschmerz - like the slightly ironic lyrical subject in your poem - do often desire purity and resist to be swallowed by the mindless commercial society. The creation of Art is a wonderfull way to escape that lifelessness and utter your real feelings on such a way, that it provides one with - perhaps an illusionary - feeling of purity and originality.

By composing a poem which refers to a time in which everything was more pure and 'when true love was real', you enter a literary tradition that is based on the same idea. 'The Wastle Land' - and many other poems - by T.S. Eliot provides us with a superior view over the problem that I just described, also pointing to love. (Mr. Sweeny among the nightingales, The Love song of J. Alfred Prufock, etc.) However, I do not know the exact association that brought you to the compilation of your poem - I hope it wasn't a cliché pop song that pollutes your little sister while she makes her homework - but the main idea is there!

To hear from you again,

[Phoenix_Tears]

I only liked part of what she was singing the line being "I don't want to be YOUR cinderella, i can save my self" i used it, and wrote my own around it. i have no idea what it was, but i liked the line. Countless times i find myself wondering, how people can stand to live without poetry and true emotions. I don't mean most of the lyrics called poetry today (aka most rap and country etc.) i think the only groups i have heard in this time that have true poetic lyrics, are Linkin Park and Evanescence. and they are very similar in almost all ways. I quote amy lee (lead singer for evanescence) "I am just a princess trapped in the present" or something like that.

I contradict myself so often its frustrating. Ever been trying to tell someone about something and they nodd, and then you say "Do you know what i am saying?" and they say "no not really" i get that alot. Whatever happened to people then? When did they lose their beliefs in love and the word? That is even more frustrating. Now a days it seems like all people care about is sex,drugs,and money. tv makes women out to be these little man traps, whom only shop, and do their makeup. Well i guess i am a lone voice in saying that as a young teenage woman, i do nothing of the sort. In fact, it is cruel to generalize us in such ways, although most girls decide that that is how they are supposed to be to fit in the society because that is how the media gets across.
I am here to say now, that i do not enjoy much shopping unless it is for books. I prefer a books-a-million spree and a mocha w/ cinnomon and whip cream to a new pair of earrings and jeans of a manicure.

I hate it when people think they understand everything about me just because i am a girl and i take pleasure in setting them straight(not always in a nice fashion of course *wink*) In fact, i much prefer having guys as friends because they are less likely to back stab you, and i can be myself around them. In fact, i have this p.e. coach, who is a complete imbusile. he is a sexist ***. In class, whilst reviewing the rules, the whole time he kept putting emphasis on his "man eater philosophy" and all the boys bought into it, as did most of the girls. That frustrated me further even. I went as far as to stand up in the middle of class. But i refrained from uttering a word.Though i would not have minded a three day suspension for telling him EXACTLY what was on my mind. Afterwards one of my close guy friends asked me what had happened, because he had never seen me so angry. He said i turned an odd colour red, and defined the expression "Shooting daggers with my eyes" . The guy irked me seriously. i hate that all i can do is change classes and complain like a child. He was out of line, he had no buisness slandering us like this.

But life goes on, if thats one thing i know for certain.
-Phoen-X-

[b]

Well, Phoenix_Tears
The one prouncing princess
That is not trapped in her golden cage
But just prouncing behind the bars
of her own time -

Well, Phoenix_Tears
Who's tears sometimes
Become time-tearing daggers
To stab back:

You have exactly the 'Romanic' attitude that I was pointing to, with - of course - the familiar contradictions. As I already said, most people are satisfied with the commercialised illusions that mass-culture provides them, lacking any emotion or originality. But - luckily - not all of them: that would have been a lonely world for me.

Taking the way of the least resistance in life doesn't appeal to me very much: instead of doing what everybody else does, I really care about things and want to feel and exploit the beauty of life as good as I can. The creative, original process of writing poetry is one of the things that give me the ability to do that, but as a young student, I am continuously confronted with the lifeless drag of our 'culture'.

The mind-trampling policies of schools - that often force you not to think, but to imitate - aren't easy to escape, especially not by people who are still immature, as far as society is concerned. Having found my place in Europe's only College of Liberal Arts, the future looks very bright for me. I hope that you will also find a way to listen to your clearly present poetical soul, and at the same time remain comfortable!

To hear from you again,

[Phoenix_Tears]

I think you might be surprised to find i am only 13..a few months to fourteen.

America never really had the romantic spirit. Europe did for sure.

-Phoen-x-

[b]

Unfortunately, I think you're right about that. At least: Europe has a longer lifetime, so the chance that the Romanctic spirit houses there, is also greater. Europe can look back to almost three millennia of cultural richness, from Odysseus to Ulysses - from Homer to Joyce. America's history is too short and cowboy-oriented to have develloped a rich cultural past to grip back to, and is mainly pointed to a material future. (The American Dream doesn't have anything to do with Art, does it?) No, I don't think most Americans are sensible for a 'Romantic' life, in the European sense of the word. Well, of course you have those groups who detest the main cultural tradition - like the hippies in the seventies - but I think most of them were too hypocrite to be considered as real 'Romantics'.

As I already implied, Europe is much more nuanced and complex than America. In the Dutch parliament - for instance -, about 16 parties fight for the survival of their ideas, while in the US, only two are. But the influence that America has on the 'Eupean' culture, is much greater than you might think: the mass-culture here is controlled by the mass-culture in the US. Hollywood is clearly present here, and most of the (disappointed) housewifes watch Oprah and Dr. Phil here too.

However: I think the real Romantic spirit also houses in many American hearts, since mass-culture can influence, but not absolutely control the personal devellopment of an individual. I got the impression that last centuries' Jazz musicians - the negro bohemiens - came pretty close to a real Romantic movement, temporary liberating not only themselves from a slumbering emotional world, but also a great part of Europe. France - for instance - is full of direct Jazz influence, as I noticed this summer. (l'Ascenseur pour L'Echafaud)

[Phoenix_Tears]

Do not get me wrong when i say this, but i cannot wait to leave the us. My destination will be London. I see all sorts of people and my family even(my step father's military) into this american pride thing, but in history, all i hear about are war, bombs, destruction, and more war. In one war we even fought ourselves. I find it so hard to have the "american pride" my heart's just not in it. I'll support my father and this current war's cause( i find it apalling in iraq, the living conditions and everything they went through), so i am somewhat behind this war. Though i would have prefered it had war been evitable. Not to sound cliche, but can we have a little world peace for a while? I think it is sad that america seems to be the one with all the big bombs, as i'll put it. It seems like bush is not letting other countries have bombs .. they interfere in other countries affairs. I get confused just talking about it and trying to understand it all.
-Phoen-x -

hope to get it straight someday..

[gatsbysghost]

Interesting little conversation we are having here.I'm not quite sure where to jump in.

Bart what university are you attending?

I tend to agree that our culture is being devoured by our commercialism. However, I also know that since people began creating art for money, the patrons have always been materialistic. Be it wealthy individuals or wealthy nations. The point being you don't get wealthy by chance. Anyone who accumulates large sums of money has to be somewhat materialistic, otherwise, why make the effort?

Pheonix, regarding your desire to leave the country, where would you go? The world is either willingly accepting our culture, or is having it force-fed to them. The same has been true throughout the course of history. Whoever the dominant super power of the time is, the rest of the world emulates them or is assimilated. And, btw, you will find much of American idealology at work in London.

As for pride in your country, I can't force you, nor would I ask you to take part. You don't have to agree with our president, personally, I don't. But the president isn't our country. He is one man, elected by all who care to participate in an election. The beauty of our country, is that you [b]can disagree with him. You can do so openly. You can walk down th estreets of our nation's capital all day long chanting the president is a dumbass, if it makes you happy. He is one man, whose ideas are no more important than yours. Leaving the country because you don't like the way things are going would be like moving out of your house because your dad spilled a soda on the carpet. If you don't like the state of the union, do something about it. Write down your specific dislikes, find others who share them, and lobby those in power to make good. This is your country too. You have a responsibilty to fix what is broken. When you become old enough, maybe you can put yourself in a position to directly effect our policy.

Once again, I'm rambling.

[b]

The University I attend, is University College Utrecht, situated in The Netherlands, where I'm still working for my Bachelor Undergraduate. Though it might not sound special for you, it does for me: it is the most ambitious and talented (international) university in my part of Europe, I think.

And about leaving the US: though your country might seem a bit too much cowboy-like and imperial-arrogant, I shouldn't leave The American Dream for political reasons. Uncle Sam might be a little egocentric and hypocrite, but when you really care, you try to change it yourself - as gatsbysghost mentioned.

Well: I can put an essay here about the Roman-like imperial behaviour of the United States and the destructing effects that it will have on the long run, but I don't, for this is a Forum Poetarum, not the Rostra of the Forum Romanum (in Rome). But I can perfectly understand why you want to leave the USA for cultural reasons: there is much more to be tasted on the world than Kentucky Fried Chicken and crappy Holywood movies. Living in a whealthy country in Europe, I can offord to travel a lot: Paris is only 350 miles away from my bed - for instance. And for only a few euro's, I can fly to Rome, London, Berlin, Prague and even Moskov. I bet the exchange program of UCU might provide me with some other interesting trips - may be to New York.

[Phoenix_Tears]

Nice way of putting it gatsby. I want to write, that is all i want to do in life. Have a small apartment all to myself, stay up all night bent over a typewriter(prefer the old fashioned way) until i either pass out or my fingers fall off. "i am simply an eccentric writer with to much to say and not enough paper to say it, or time for that matter"- that was something in a paper i gave to my English teacher last year, our topic was write a mini autobiography on yourself(or something along those lines).

[gatsbysghost]

Bart, it does indeed sound special. I would love to study in Europe but circumstances don't permit it.

Phoenix, don't describe yourself as eccentric, unless it gives you pleasure to do so. A strong work ethic is required of a writer, especially a poet.

[b]

Well, gastbysghost: studying in America isn't bad after all, at least when you attend the really ambitious places - Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Berkerly, etc. A nephew of mine has attended Berkerkly, California for a semester, and he was really positive about it. (He is now completing his major at Oxford, however.)

And, Phoenix: I think the word eccentric has a negative sound - at least a meaning which don't exactly tastes like an epitheton ornans for a true poet... Or am I wrong?

By the way: how does my English sound to you? Since I am no native speaker, I wonder: do I sound to 'archaic', 'formal' or 'eccentric'? ;)

What do you taste?

[Phoenix_Tears]

You make me smile Gatsby,

eccentric- One that deviates markedly from an established norm, especially a person of odd or unconventional behavior.

therefore, i take pleasure in admitting my eccentric-ness, if you will.

[gatsbysghost]

Bart your English is excellent. It sounds a bit formal but that is to be expected. How many languages do you speak? I am preparing to start on Spanish. After that I think I will move on to Italian or French. In my life I would like to become fluent in Spanish, Italian, French, German, Arabic, and Mandarin Chinese. The first three I am not worried about, German, I am a little concerned with, Arabic and Chinese scare me to death.

[b]

Thanks, gatsbysghost. To be honest, the only languages that I can speak really fluently are English and Dutch - though I must admit that my standards are quite high. (According to my definition, a lot of people from my own country don't speak 'fluently' Dutch!) I am too incertain about my capacities to actually speak German and French, though I have actually had a lot of classes and pretty severe practical expierence in those languages during my travels. I can also read and write Italian and Latin, but this costs me a lot of time, to be honest. Not to mention Spanish and Ancient Greek, which I haven't even read in for three years. To answer your question fluently: I 'speak' English and Dutch, but I read and write in French, German, Italian and Latin.

(I'm planning to learn Japanese and / or Mandarin Chinese in the future, for I really would like to read Eastern Literature in it's most original form. If the Russian literature - which I haven't even been able to explore in translation, yet - intrigues me, I might also choose to learn that language: I'm still young, and hope springs eternal.)

[Phoenix_Tears]

I speak some British slang that my cousin taught me(she lived in elngland til she was six and has 3 correspondances there) Barty, you speak better english than some Americans do! I have to simply admire that.


I know about one thing in dutch. haha, i had a friend from Switzerland who was a year older than me, and he taught me this(he spoke five different languages, dutch, spanish,french,polish,and italian not counting english) U kan mijn ezel kussen, not sure if that is politically correct, but oh well.
Ta da- Phoen-x