Lady Chatterley's Lover

[Kendra]

This book is seriously the most boring book in the whole enitre world! I am a high school senior, and I was required to read a book of my choice. I thought it might be good because it was about a woman who has an affair with this man, but wow, I COULD put it down. In fact, that's all I could do. This book was not interesting to me at all. I would consider reading it when I'm older or in college, but I would not recommend it for anybody who is forced to read a book.

[Rachel chen]

well,but I don't think so

[Dara1409]

I just started reading this book today and I am enjoying it so far. Of course, I like his style of writing alot. I read Sons and Lovers about a year or two years ago.

[Janine]

This book is seriously the most boring book in the whole enitre world! I am a high school senior, and I was required to read a book of my choice. I thought it might be good because it was about a woman who has an affair with this man, but wow, I COULD put it down. In fact, that's all I could do. This book was not interesting to me at all. I would consider reading it when I'm older or in college, but I would not recommend it for anybody who is forced to read a book.

Kendra, you need a bit more maturity/life experience; then try to read it. It is a late Lawrence work and one needs some experiences in life and relationships, to fully comprehend it; even some prior knowledge of Lawrence's works and life will help. I am a big Lawrence fan and I love the book, along with all of the other Lawrence works I have read. The book has a lot deeper meaning, than is first perceived; being forced to read it and then continually putting it down is not a good thing. Obviously, you didn't see the main points or depth of the novel. I would suggest forgoing your reading of it for now and maybe later on in life, trying it again. Lawrence is not for everyone, so maybe you will never like his writing, but his books "Sons and Lovers" and "Women in Love" have become true classics in English literature, so your not recommending it is sort of absurd, since you have such a limited knowledge of the author at this point. It is true that being forced to read any novel can turn a person off to it. I had experienced the very same thing in my high school years; some of those novels now are my very favorites. One example would be "A Tale of Two Cities" - a magnificent novel!

[IJustMadeThatUp]

Wow Janine, you pop up on almost every thread concerning Lawrence! It certainly proves you are a huge fan :)

I'm literally one page into Lady Chatterley's Lover so I can't comment too much yet. It seems interesting so far. I read Women in Love a few months ago and I'm still scratching my head over it... I found I got too bogged down in trying to understand Birkin.

[Babbalanja]

I'm currently reading this phenomenal book. I had never read Lawrence before, and I'm just stunned by his intellect and sensitivity.

Regards,

Istvan

[Janine]

Wow Janine, you pop up on almost every thread concerning Lawrence! It certainly proves you are a huge fan :)

Yes indeed; I am a huge fan or at least, say I am hugely fascinated with the man and his life and body of work. Even today, I spotted this thread and immediately proceeded in here; this is my first today! I have read nearly all of L's work and also many biographies - fascinating life! I still have tons more of L to read; the author was quite prolithic.


I'm literally one page into Lady Chatterley's Lover so I can't comment too much yet. It seems interesting so far. I read Women in Love a few months ago and I'm still scratching my head over it... I found I got too bogged down in trying to understand Birkin.

I hope you continued and liked the book. It is a very late work, which most people don't realise. I would never recommend it as a first read of L's work. Isn't it a good a thing, that you found yourself pondering Birkin? I believe when I ponder or think heavily on a character and am unable to totally figure him out I am more fascinated with the novel and the character. Birkin very much epitomised Lawrence himself and his ideas.


I'm currently reading this phenomenal book. I had never read Lawrence before, and I'm just stunned by his intellect and sensitivity.

Regards,

Istvan

Yes, I absolutely agree...it is phenomenal as are all Lawrence's works. I often find that on my second reading of such masterpieces as "Sons and Lovers" and "Women in Love", I see and feel even more of the deeper meanings in the writing. Good way to express Lawrence's talent - "intellect and sensitivity" - certainly always present in his works. He was quite a genius in his time and totally under-valued by the critics of his day. They were quite brutal to L; since his work did not follow the norm of the day. He paved the way for the way for many an author to come, especially with censorship and other issues.

[jadrianne]

Why : because it shows how a woman can enjoy her sexuality and feel herself free with the man she loves even though her life has been full of problems .

It isn't easy to repress one's sexuality and the fact that she has an invalid husband was and still is a very controversial subject .

Bruckner tries to re-create the same situation in Bitter Moon but in my opinion Lady Chatterley is better than Bitter Moon .

[kelby_lake]

I thought the novel was good- sexual freedom for women and broken-down class barriers, etc.- but it could have been better. The characters were fairly weak as characterisation got and I felt sorry for poor Lord Chatterley.

[Paulclem]

I thought the novel was good- sexual freedom for women and broken-down class barriers, etc.- but it could have been better. The characters were fairly weak as characterisation got and I felt sorry for poor Lord Chatterley.

There is amoral ambiguity in Lawrence championing Mellors and Lady Chatterley. he paints an unpleasant picture of Lord Chatterley, which is somewhat understandable given his disability.

Mellors the fecund, earthy Gamekeeper representing the virile working classes injecting life into the impotent upper classes.

It is a clumsy analogy, and not one of his better books. I wonder how many people were disappointed with it after they bought it when the ban was lifted?:D

[Babbalanja]

I didn't realize until I read it that the novel is more about Lawrence's anti-industrialism than a romance that crosses classes. The surreal scene where the lovers adorn their naked bodies with flowers and herbs is a sort of neo-pagan ritual. Lawrence was calling for the return to pastoralism, healing the wounds of the industrial activity that destroys both Earth and humanity.

Lady Chatterly is the only Lawrence I've read, and it was nowhere near a disappointment.

Regards,

Istvan

[IJustMadeThatUp]

I hope you continued and liked the book. It is a very late work, which most people don't realise. I would never recommend it as a first read of L's work. Isn't it a good a thing, that you found yourself pondering Birkin? I believe when I ponder or think heavily on a character and am unable to totally figure him out I am more fascinated with the novel and the character. Birkin very much epitomised Lawrence himself and his ideas.


I'd forgotten about my post.

I'd like to tell you Janine, that I finished and loved the book. Lawrence's descriptions blew me away, quite often I would be reading and think "Yes, that's EXACTLY how it feels!".

A thoroughly enjoyable read, it's the romance novel for the thinking woman ;)

[kelby_lake]

I didn't realize until I read it that the novel is more about Lawrence's anti-industrialism than a romance that crosses classes. The surreal scene where the lovers adorn their naked bodies with flowers and herbs is a sort of neo-pagan ritual. Lawrence was calling for the return to pastoralism, healing the wounds of the industrial activity that destroys both Earth and humanity.

Lady Chatterly is the only Lawrence I've read, and it was nowhere near a disappointment.

Regards,

Istvan

Women in Love does the nature bit too, but the characters are more evenly weighted.

[grace86]

I thought this book was fantastic. I agree with Janine that life experiences are sort of necessity to understand a certain aspect of this book. Throughout some of the descriptions of emotion, I found myself wondering how in the world Lawrence could pull off certain sentiments a woman may have about her sexuality and relationships with others.

There is A LOT going on with the industrialism/pastoralism (if that's the alternative) theme. The part that struck me the most was Lady Chatterley, Mellors and Clifford and the wheelchair. There had been a previous discussion between Lady Chatterley and Clifford on masters and servants and I thought the episode of the wheelchair up the hill was a fantastic illustration.

I've read Women in Love and Sons and Lovers, and I think that this one will stick with me a bit longer than those.

[Virgil]

I would love to have a group read of Lady Chatterly. Ive been wanting to re-read it for the longest time. It's not a long novel.

[Janine]

I'd forgotten about my post.

I'd like to tell you Janine, that I finished and loved the book. Lawrence's descriptions blew me away, quite often I would be reading and think "Yes, that's EXACTLY how it feels!".

A thoroughly enjoyable read, it's the romance novel for the thinking woman ;)

Hi IJustMadeThatUp! I am here now and listening. Now which one are you referring to - WIL or LC? I love all Lawrence's books and I like how you felt about his writing. I so much agree. He seemed to have a deep understanding into the thoughts and feelings of women. All L's books have blown me away in various ways! Glad to hear of another Lawrence fan; you might want to join us in the short story thread which I will get started later this week.

[Janine]

I thought this book was fantastic. I agree with Janine that life experiences are sort of necessity to understand a certain aspect of this book. Throughout some of the descriptions of emotion, I found myself wondering how in the world Lawrence could pull off certain sentiments a woman may have about her sexuality and relationships with others.

There is A LOT going on with the industrialism/pastoralism (if that's the alternative) theme. The part that struck me the most was Lady Chatterley, Mellors and Clifford and the wheelchair. There had been a previous discussion between Lady Chatterley and Clifford on masters and servants and I thought the episode of the wheelchair up the hill was a fantastic illustration.

I've read Women in Love and Sons and Lovers, and I think that this one will stick with me a bit longer than those.

Grace, I am so happy you liked the book and enjoyed it so. I think it's a fantastic novel, too. I read it twice. I am sure I will read it again someday. It has a lot to it; a lot of psychological things going on and the triangle between her husband and her and the game keeper really is evident in that wheelchair scene. Also his nurse plays into the whole dynamics. He prefers her mothering to his wife's true affections. Clifford is a strange egg and complicated. Everyone in the novel is complicated. It really makes one ponder various things and values.

I am happy you appreciate the genius of L's writing. I think he was incredible and wonderfully and intuitive and sensitive to human beings....what really mades us tick.

Virgil, I would love to read the book again and disguss it. It is short and so it's managable for the forum. Let me know when you would like to do so. I will be up for it. It's a very good book indeed.

[kelby_lake]

I thought this book was fantastic. I agree with Janine that life experiences are sort of necessity to understand a certain aspect of this book. Throughout some of the descriptions of emotion, I found myself wondering how in the world Lawrence could pull off certain sentiments a woman may have about her sexuality and relationships with others.


Isn't there a quote somewhere where Lawrence says that his greatest love was with a miner when he was 16?

[grace86]

Virgil and Janine I definitely wouldn't mind reading it again or discussing it further. Have you read it Virgil?? Even though I finished it last week I still think of the characters quite often. Actually, I'm having trouble starting Hemingway because I keep thinking of the novel.

Janine, you're right about the complicated characters. I was going to debate you on your comment about Clifford preferring the maid's (I can't remember her name right now) motherly affection or the "true" affection of Constance. I was going to say I wasn't sure how much Constance really cared for Clifford, but as I'm thinking about it - she did - and it was more complicated than I initially thought. But I'll save further comments on that in case we start a discussion of the book.

I'll definitely read it again BECAUSE there is so much to catch that's embedded within Lawrence's words.

kelby_lake I'm not sure on the quote about being in love with a miner. Janine might be more knowledgeable on that one!

Maybe I'll read the Rainbow soon....

[Janine]

Virgil and Janine I definitely wouldn't mind reading it again or discussing it further. Have you read it Virgil?? Even though I finished it last week I still think of the characters quite often. Actually, I'm having trouble starting Hemingway because I keep thinking of the novel.

So absolutely true; Lawrence's characters never really leave our minds; they make that much of an impression. I feel it is like I had a intimate window into their lives and many of the characters he did base on true people he knew. Also and probably prominently I see Lawrence's thoughts so well layed out in his characters. Virgil did read LC, I believe years ago. I know he liked it. I don't think Quark read it yet. Once we had a discussion about it late at night when we got to kidding around about yellow highlighters (inside joke).


Janine, you're right about the complicated characters. I was going to debate you on your comment about Clifford preferring the maid's (I can't remember her name right now) motherly affection or the "true" affection of Constance. I was going to say I wasn't sure how much Constance really cared for Clifford, but as I'm thinking about it - she did - and it was more complicated than I initially thought. But I'll save further comments on that in case we start a discussion of the book.

From what I recall, when Clifford first came back from the war injuried Connie attempted to be a wife to him. It was as if he was more than damaged physically. He probably brought away with him all the ravages of war and his internal memories of them and this could have changed him and made him more detached. I am just surmissing this. The nurse might represent nurses he had in the hospital, and she would be no threat to him emotionally. We can discuss this part in more detail later. I have read some analysis on the relationships. There is actually several triangles here dealing with relationships.


I'll definitely read it again BECAUSE there is so much to catch that's embedded within Lawrence's words.

Grace, I think anyone reading L and taking to his writing should definitely read the works twice. I know I get more out of the second reading. Good way of putting it - "embedded within Lawrence's words" - how very true that is. There is a lot there.


kelby_lake I'm not sure on the quote about being in love with a miner. Janine might be more knowledgeable on that one!

Maybe I'll read the Rainbow soon....

Kelby, I think you might be referring to a love he had for one of Jesse's brothers. He was a farmer and lived with his farming family. Lawrence was first close friends with him (forget his name now, think it was George) and later he got intimate with Jesse. His love for the young man was most likely platonic and innocent (they were quite young then), but very close and intimate and made a great impact on him. I also know that later on he loved a man in Cornwall...another farmer. There are rumors about that, also; but most likely it was not a homosexual encounter; although, it could have been. However, people like to talk and gossip and make more about something than really exists. Afterall a man can love another man without it being a homosexual thing.

[Virgil]

Virgil, I would love to read the book again and disguss it. It is short and so it's managable for the forum. Let me know when you would like to do so. I will be up for it. It's a very good book indeed.


Virgil and Janine I definitely wouldn't mind reading it again or discussing it further. Have you read it Virgil?? Even though I finished it last week I still think of the characters quite often. Actually, I'm having trouble starting Hemingway because I keep thinking of the novel.


Yes I've read it. I would put it behind The Rainbow, Women In Love, and Sons and Lovers as to the greatness of the novel, but that's not to say it's not a good novel. It is.

Well, it's a little tough this month. I'm already involved in the Book club March read of Hesse's Steppenwolf. I could read it in April but there is the possibility that I may have to break the discussion and go off to Siberia. :wink5:

As to the theme of the novel, I bet most of the feminists would be shocked as to what Lawrence is saying about male/female relationships in this novel. This is a late Lawrence work and he's moved passed the equal forces theme of Women In Love.

[grace86]

I'll discuss it whenever...simply because I enjoyed it!



As to the theme of the novel, I bet most of the feminists would be shocked as to what Lawrence is saying about male/female relationships in this novel. This is a late Lawrence work and he's moved passed the equal forces theme of Women In Love.

Personally glad I'm not a feminist! For me, there's more to enjoy then.

[Quark]

I would love to have a group read of Lady Chatterly.

I'm listening.


I don't think Quark read it yet.

No, I haven't read it, but at the bookstore this morning I looked at the first chapter--a whirlwind of characterization. It reminded me of Jane Austen novel, honestly. We get the genealogy of our protagonists, their class, occupation, marriage status. Lawrence mixes in some post-war resonances and risque sexual observations, but, without that, it could have been opening of a new Austen novel: Sex and Sexuality? Wragby Park? I'm interested to see where Lawrence goes from here. It seems like the story is in stasis after chapter one. Everyone is settled into a comfortable (although not entirely happy) position, and there isn't a conflict in sight. Usually, at least in the short stories, Lawrence starts out in some disequilibrium: a wife discovers evidence that her husband is having an affair, a man leaves to settle mysterious islands, etc. Here, though, everyone's in a fixed position. There isn't yet a pronounced direction to the story. I'm interested to see where Lawrence takes this.

[Janine]

I'm listening. Does that mean you would be interested or you heard us all say it before? Someday it will come to be. Just be patient.




No, I haven't read it, but at the bookstore this morning I looked at the first chapter--a whirlwind of characterization. It reminded me of Jane Austen novel, honestly. We get the genealogy of our protagonists, their class, occupation, marriage status. Lawrence mixes in some post-war resonances and risque sexual observations, but, without that, it could have been opening of a new Austen novel: Sex and Sexuality? Wragby Park? I'm interested to see where Lawrence goes from here. It seems like the story is in stasis after chapter one. Everyone is settled into a comfortable (although not entirely happy) position, and there isn't a conflict in sight. Usually, at least in the short stories, Lawrence starts out in some disequilibrium: a wife discovers evidence that her husband is having an affair, a man leaves to settle mysterious islands, etc. Here, though, everyone's in a fixed position. There isn't yet a pronounced direction to the story. I'm interested to see where Lawrence takes this.

:rolleyes: Now that was an interesting analogy, Quark. I have never thought of Lawrence as remotely anything like Austen; but apparently, you have seen the similarities. At anyrate, I think you can remedy seeing where Lawrence takes this novel by actually reading it. It's about time you read LCL. You have talked about it enough....and don't skim. If you need yellow highlighters, I will gladly send you box! :smilielol5:

[grace86]

If you need yellow highlighters, I will gladly send you box! :smilielol5:

Here here!! I wrote down page numbers to dozens of passages I'd like to look into more!

[Janine]

Here here!! I wrote down page numbers to dozens of passages I'd like to look into more!

:lol:....that comment was meant for Quark; we had a funny conversation on the Lawrence short story thread late one night. He said he highlighted passages in Sons and Lovers and I asked if he had read LCL; of which he said "Not yet" and I told him he would need a whole box of highlighters for that one. We got a good many laughs out of that one! Grace, shall I send you box, too? :smilielol5:

[grace86]

:lol:....that comment was meant for Quark; we had a funny conversation on the Lawrence short story thread late one night. He said he highlighted passages in Sons and Lovers and I asked if he had read LCL; of which he said "Not yet" and I told him he would need a whole box of highlighters for that one. We got a good many laughs out of that one! Grace, shall I send you box, too? :smilielol5:

Oh I know it was meant for Quark...thought I'd join in too. Yes I should like a box!

[Janine]

Oh I know it was meant for Quark...thought I'd join in too. Yes I should like a box!

:smilielol5: Oh it's way!

[Quark]

Does that mean you would be interested or you heard us all say it before?

Both. I'd be interested in an LCL discussion, but, at the same time, I think I'd be willing to do any Lawrence discussion at this point. It's been months since we've done a story.


:rolleyes: Now that was an interesting analogy, Quark.

Just trying to mix things up by looking at the oddities of the first chapter. I think we can all see the usual Lawrence touches there, and they probably don't need to be pointed out: an overly civilized, enervated couple with a troubled sex life; an ironic, detached narrator; etc.

I think I mentioned in my previous post, though, that I wasn't sure where Lawrence might be going with this. Well, that was a little bit of a lie. Lawrence tips his hand quite a lot in the first chapter. While it's difficult to make out exactly what the plot is going to look like, you can certainly make out what will be at stake in the coming pages. Sentences like these two give it away (not in a bad way):


For, of course, being a girl, one's whole dignity and meaning in life consisted in the achievement of an absolute, a perfect, a pure, and noble freedom. What else did a girl's life mean?

Notions like these probably won't stand the test of time in the novel.


I think you can remedy seeing where Lawrence takes this novel by actually reading it. It's about time you read LCL.

Well, I'll actually read whichever story you all choose is the best for discussion.

[grace86]

Well, I'll actually read whichever story you all choose is the best for discussion.

Read it Quark!!! :D I usually don't pull into reading for much more than the story, but Lawrence's thoughts are really not just easy to get to, but quite interesting to think about. But of course, I also probably read the novel at a most appropriate time though - being a single and yet educated young woman having her doubts about relationships and the human condition - so I got a lot out of it.

There are just some scenes in the novel that have stuck with me more than in other Lawrence novels that happened to be very thought provoking. You'll like the reading if you like Lawrence - which seems apparent :D

[Janine]

Both. I'd be interested in an LCL discussion, but, at the same time, I think I'd be willing to do any Lawrence discussion at this point. It's been months since we've done a story. Seriously, I am working on it; but haven't been feeling well this whole week. I will skim the story tonight, look for some photo and write up a brief introduction. I will probably pick the one I mentioned, even if it's a little longer. It's very engaging.


Just trying to mix things up by looking at the oddities of the first chapter. I think we can all see the usual Lawrence touches there, and they probably don't need to be pointed out: an overly civilized, enervated couple with a troubled sex life; an ironic, detached narrator; etc.

Quark, I know you by now and know you to do these quirky things. I rather enjoyed you funky description. It made me laugh. Sort of like 'Lawrence Retold'.


I think I mentioned in my previous post, though, that I wasn't sure where Lawrence might be going with this. Well, that was a little bit of a lie. Lawrence tips his hand quite a lot in the first chapter. While it's difficult to make out exactly what the plot is going to look like, you can certainly make out what will be at stake in the coming pages. Sentences like these two give it away (not in a bad way): Yes, it's not hard to read what Lawrence has instore for us in the beginning text. He often eludes to coming events even if symbolically.


Notions like these probably won't stand the test of time in the novel.

Well, I'll actually read whichever story you all choose is the best for discussion.

I don't know about that. I think his work will be far more appreciated as time goes by.

I am working on the story as stated above...at least I am thinking about it.

Grace, you are absolutely right. You know I didn't know if you would take to this Lawrence book and you have amazed me. As you said there is a lot going on in this novel. It's funny, I think the discussions of L's short stories and two books have helped all of you to recognise the subtexts and underlying themes; which are so often repeated in L's works. Glad the book spoke to you specifically, Grace. I think it has a lot to say. A woman can particularly relate.

[Quark]

Seriously, I am working on it; but haven't been feeling well this whole week. I will skim the story tonight, look for some photo and write up a brief introduction. I will probably pick the one I mentioned, even if it's a little longer. It's very engaging.

Well, whenever it starts, let me know and then we can start up a discussion.


I don't know about that. I think his work will be far more appreciated as time goes by.

I didn't mean that the novel wouldn't stand the test of time. I was saying that Connie's love of independence was probably going to be tested in the novel.

[dodoshady]

I think Lawrence is the best writer ever

[jerryball]

I agree, but not about the book which I thing is a very good novel, I think, each age has a kind of reading that could enjoy. This novel is for adults. In fact, the book could not be published openly in the Uk until 1960.